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	<title>Comments on: Pastor Renee DuBose Believes &#8216;Gay is a Mark of God&#8217;s Diversity&#8217;</title>
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	<link>http://jeremysarber.com/2008/08/26/pastor-renee-dubose-believes-gay-is-a-mark-of-gods-diversity/</link>
	<description>sometimes sharp, sometimes dull, but never rusty.</description>
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		<title>By: madmonq</title>
		<link>http://jeremysarber.com/2008/08/26/pastor-renee-dubose-believes-gay-is-a-mark-of-gods-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-13954</link>
		<dc:creator>madmonq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Nov 2009 21:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremysarber.com/?p=1656#comment-13954</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s be honest. 
 
When the after church collection of fatties are bellying up to the buffet bar on Sunday afternoons (soliciting a business on the Lord&#039;s day of rest?) they&#039;re none too worried about the section of Leviticus about eating shellfish... 
 
&quot;But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you.&quot; (Leviticus 11:10) 
 
Or any pork byproduct for that matter, another old testament no-no.  Same section of the bible as that nonsense about homosexuality.  Judging from the heart attack rate in the Bible belt we all know this is true.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#039;s be honest. </p>
<p>When the after church collection of fatties are bellying up to the buffet bar on Sunday afternoons (soliciting a business on the Lord&#039;s day of rest?) they&#039;re none too worried about the section of Leviticus about eating shellfish&#8230; </p>
<p>&quot;But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you.&quot; (<a target="_blank" href="http://biblegateway.com/bible?version=9&amp;passage=Leviticus+11%3A10"  class="bibleref" title="KJV Leviticus 11:10" target="_new">Leviticus 11:10</a>) </p>
<p>Or any pork byproduct for that matter, another old testament no-no.  Same section of the bible as that nonsense about homosexuality.  Judging from the heart attack rate in the Bible belt we all know this is true.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://jeremysarber.com/2008/08/26/pastor-renee-dubose-believes-gay-is-a-mark-of-gods-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-6573</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 02:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremysarber.com/?p=1656#comment-6573</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s so strange that so many fundamentalist Christians insist that God&#039;s laws be written into civil law. Yet they do fully understand the need for &quot;Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar&#039;s.&quot; How many of the Ten Commandments actually have civil and criminal penalties under our laws? When was the last time a kid was thrown in jail for not honoring his father or mother? Why is there no fundamentalist Christian outcry to stone the cheating wife? Even those fundamentalists who believe that life begins at conception and believe abortion is &quot;murder&quot; don&#039;t advocate corresponding penalties (no woman has been hung for that yet). By their lack of action, these Christians speak volumes.

Yet, here we are, justifying our legal opposition to homosexuality with the Bible. How stupid! That being said, I acknowledge the cultural abhorance to  homosexual acts. However, this is NOT a religious argument that anyone can win. Marriage is NOT a religious institution, it&#039;s CIVIL! Even the Pilgrams understood that! The minister didn&#039;t perform marriages, the governor did.

The decision America must make is whether to hold onto the the simple and ancient reason for marriage. Is it still to be for the upbringing and benefit of children? All of today&#039;s studies still support the benefits of both BIOLOGICAL parents raising the child.  More recently, governments have provided benefits for spouses (usually wives) who presumably need the protection and stability of the marriage contract for economic security they forego for the sake of raising children.

The question before us now is: Do we want to change the definition of marriage and the basic reason for marriage from that of, &quot;a union between a man and a woman for the stability and benefit of the family produced by such a union, recognizing the benefit to society&quot; to that of, &quot;a union between two people who profess love for one another.&quot;

Since the various state and the federal governments have all addressed the need for marriage based upon the first premise, and very few homosexual unions have such social benefits, do we want to redefine marriage because of the very few homosexual unions which may benefit children or their caretaker? Do we give &quot;unearned&quot; benefits now granted to wives and children to homosexual partners who neither raise nor sacrifice for children? Will such a redefinition trivialize and weaken the tattered bonds of modern heterosexual unions further and thus weaken our society?

It may be well argued that the government is not in the &quot;love&quot; business, but in the business of &quot;social&quot; security.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s so strange that so many fundamentalist Christians insist that God&#8217;s laws be written into civil law. Yet they do fully understand the need for &#8220;Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar&#8217;s.&#8221; How many of the Ten Commandments actually have civil and criminal penalties under our laws? When was the last time a kid was thrown in jail for not honoring his father or mother? Why is there no fundamentalist Christian outcry to stone the cheating wife? Even those fundamentalists who believe that life begins at conception and believe abortion is &#8220;murder&#8221; don&#8217;t advocate corresponding penalties (no woman has been hung for that yet). By their lack of action, these Christians speak volumes.</p>
<p>Yet, here we are, justifying our legal opposition to homosexuality with the Bible. How stupid! That being said, I acknowledge the cultural abhorance to  homosexual acts. However, this is NOT a religious argument that anyone can win. Marriage is NOT a religious institution, it&#8217;s CIVIL! Even the Pilgrams understood that! The minister didn&#8217;t perform marriages, the governor did.</p>
<p>The decision America must make is whether to hold onto the the simple and ancient reason for marriage. Is it still to be for the upbringing and benefit of children? All of today&#8217;s studies still support the benefits of both BIOLOGICAL parents raising the child.  More recently, governments have provided benefits for spouses (usually wives) who presumably need the protection and stability of the marriage contract for economic security they forego for the sake of raising children.</p>
<p>The question before us now is: Do we want to change the definition of marriage and the basic reason for marriage from that of, &#8220;a union between a man and a woman for the stability and benefit of the family produced by such a union, recognizing the benefit to society&#8221; to that of, &#8220;a union between two people who profess love for one another.&#8221;</p>
<p>Since the various state and the federal governments have all addressed the need for marriage based upon the first premise, and very few homosexual unions have such social benefits, do we want to redefine marriage because of the very few homosexual unions which may benefit children or their caretaker? Do we give &#8220;unearned&#8221; benefits now granted to wives and children to homosexual partners who neither raise nor sacrifice for children? Will such a redefinition trivialize and weaken the tattered bonds of modern heterosexual unions further and thus weaken our society?</p>
<p>It may be well argued that the government is not in the &#8220;love&#8221; business, but in the business of &#8220;social&#8221; security.</p>
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		<title>By: Shirley Pitney</title>
		<link>http://jeremysarber.com/2008/08/26/pastor-renee-dubose-believes-gay-is-a-mark-of-gods-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-6545</link>
		<dc:creator>Shirley Pitney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremysarber.com/?p=1656#comment-6545</guid>
		<description>The subject of homosexuality cannot be lightened; however, I do want to point out to you, Jeremy, that you have lived in Indiana for many years now. It is time to get this Dawg thing out of your head. How far do you live from Notre Dame (or even Purdue or, God forbid, Indiana University)?  Perhaps you could at least consider one of them (probably not IU) as on the same par (or better) as those Georgia teams! And, back to the subject at hand, I have a very precious friend who is gay. We have talked about this, prayed about this. I have watched him struggle with this. But he still claims to be gay. He has compassion that I have not known in many &quot;straight&quot; people. And I love him. He has been, is, always will be my friend. I will continue to love him and continue to pray for him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The subject of homosexuality cannot be lightened; however, I do want to point out to you, Jeremy, that you have lived in Indiana for many years now. It is time to get this Dawg thing out of your head. How far do you live from Notre Dame (or even Purdue or, God forbid, Indiana University)?  Perhaps you could at least consider one of them (probably not IU) as on the same par (or better) as those Georgia teams! And, back to the subject at hand, I have a very precious friend who is gay. We have talked about this, prayed about this. I have watched him struggle with this. But he still claims to be gay. He has compassion that I have not known in many &#8220;straight&#8221; people. And I love him. He has been, is, always will be my friend. I will continue to love him and continue to pray for him.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Sarber</title>
		<link>http://jeremysarber.com/2008/08/26/pastor-renee-dubose-believes-gay-is-a-mark-of-gods-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-6542</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Sarber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 03:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremysarber.com/?p=1656#comment-6542</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s absolutely right.  Go Dawgs!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s absolutely right.  Go Dawgs!</p>
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		<title>By: Vinson Howell</title>
		<link>http://jeremysarber.com/2008/08/26/pastor-renee-dubose-believes-gay-is-a-mark-of-gods-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-6541</link>
		<dc:creator>Vinson Howell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 03:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremysarber.com/?p=1656#comment-6541</guid>
		<description>First, I just want to say that I hope no one thinks less of Athens and my Dawgs, who are ranked #1 in the preseason polls, just because of this &quot;minister&quot; and her misguided stance on homosexuality.  That being said... WOW!  She&#039;s really out there isn&#039;t she?  To honestly think that she can be teaching from the word of God and simultaneously be living in a sin that is outright and fully condemned in the Book she is teaching out of.  That&#039;s like a history teacher telling his class to ignore the part in their history books that says George Washington was the first president of the United States because it isn&#039;t true.  I&#039;m not even gonna try to make an argument on morality or ethics.  I can&#039;t convince anyone that homosexuality is wrong.  What I can say, however, is that this woman has lost credibility becasue she contradicts the Word of God.  Many different religions interpret the Bible in different ways, but you can&#039;t claim to be a follower or a teacher of the Word if you deny it or any part of it.

As for the accusation that Christians try to impose their beliefs on others, the Ten Commandments in government owned buildings is not an imposition on those who do not believe in God.  No one has ever held anyone&#039;s face in front of a copy of the Ten Commandments and held his eyelids open until he read them.  Give me a break.  Separation of Church and State is not a Consitutional concept.  I challenge anyone to find those words in our constitution.  It simply bans the federal government from creating a state sponsored religion and restricting the free exercise of whatever religion a person chooses to believe in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, I just want to say that I hope no one thinks less of Athens and my Dawgs, who are ranked #1 in the preseason polls, just because of this &#8220;minister&#8221; and her misguided stance on homosexuality.  That being said&#8230; WOW!  She&#8217;s really out there isn&#8217;t she?  To honestly think that she can be teaching from the word of God and simultaneously be living in a sin that is outright and fully condemned in the Book she is teaching out of.  That&#8217;s like a history teacher telling his class to ignore the part in their history books that says George Washington was the first president of the United States because it isn&#8217;t true.  I&#8217;m not even gonna try to make an argument on morality or ethics.  I can&#8217;t convince anyone that homosexuality is wrong.  What I can say, however, is that this woman has lost credibility becasue she contradicts the Word of God.  Many different religions interpret the Bible in different ways, but you can&#8217;t claim to be a follower or a teacher of the Word if you deny it or any part of it.</p>
<p>As for the accusation that Christians try to impose their beliefs on others, the Ten Commandments in government owned buildings is not an imposition on those who do not believe in God.  No one has ever held anyone&#8217;s face in front of a copy of the Ten Commandments and held his eyelids open until he read them.  Give me a break.  Separation of Church and State is not a Consitutional concept.  I challenge anyone to find those words in our constitution.  It simply bans the federal government from creating a state sponsored religion and restricting the free exercise of whatever religion a person chooses to believe in.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Sarber</title>
		<link>http://jeremysarber.com/2008/08/26/pastor-renee-dubose-believes-gay-is-a-mark-of-gods-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-6528</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Sarber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 04:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremysarber.com/?p=1656#comment-6528</guid>
		<description>I believe what I believe.  If what I believe means legalized homosexual marriages hurt the country as a whole, why would I abandon that without contrary biblical proof?  No one has to listen to me.  No one has to read what I write.  No one has to agree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe what I believe.  If what I believe means legalized homosexual marriages hurt the country as a whole, why would I abandon that without contrary biblical proof?  No one has to listen to me.  No one has to read what I write.  No one has to agree.</p>
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		<title>By: Leslie</title>
		<link>http://jeremysarber.com/2008/08/26/pastor-renee-dubose-believes-gay-is-a-mark-of-gods-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-6524</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:41:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremysarber.com/?p=1656#comment-6524</guid>
		<description>I think Eric has a good point. What if people think the Bible is wrong or immoral? You would still have no problem having them pray or being regularly exposed to the 10 commandments. Yet, because you think certain things are wrong, you think they should be forbidden. 

And you say your reason is because you believe you are right. Well, people who do not believe in the Bible also believe they are right. If believing one was right was reason enough to force one&#039;s opinions/beliefs onto others through legislation, then, no one would ever be allowed to do anything.

By the way, I see no problems with prayer in school that is student initiated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Eric has a good point. What if people think the Bible is wrong or immoral? You would still have no problem having them pray or being regularly exposed to the 10 commandments. Yet, because you think certain things are wrong, you think they should be forbidden. </p>
<p>And you say your reason is because you believe you are right. Well, people who do not believe in the Bible also believe they are right. If believing one was right was reason enough to force one&#8217;s opinions/beliefs onto others through legislation, then, no one would ever be allowed to do anything.</p>
<p>By the way, I see no problems with prayer in school that is student initiated.</p>
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		<title>By: Leslie</title>
		<link>http://jeremysarber.com/2008/08/26/pastor-renee-dubose-believes-gay-is-a-mark-of-gods-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-6523</link>
		<dc:creator>Leslie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 03:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremysarber.com/?p=1656#comment-6523</guid>
		<description>I am reminded of a song I wrote recently...

I just think that whoever you are if you were to show yourself to us,
you would do it in a way that would bring us closer together
I just feel in my heart that whoever you are, you are full of love
And if we truly found you, we would truly love one another

Some call me crazy,
maybe they&#039;re right, but all I know is I&#039;m tired of the fighting
So many differences that we could be enjoying,
but instead we want to prove who is better

I just think that whoever you are if you were to show us how to live,
You&#039;d make sure we understood how to really care for each other
I just feel in my heart that whoever you are you want peace for us
and to watch us embrace all the differences that you have given us

Some call me crazy,
maybe they&#039;re right, but all I know is I&#039;m tired of the ignorance
You gotta have the right skin, the right faith, the right orientation
to fit in

I just think that whoever you are if you were to build a church for us
we&#039;d never find it in a building where only certain kinds of people go
I just feel in my heart that whoever you are you&#039;re in each of us
It&#039;s in our hearts that we will find you, 
not in some religion

Some call me crazy
Maybe they&#039;re right, but all I know is I&#039;m tired of tradition
People passing judgment when it is none of their business
and so rarely taking time to look within

I just think that whoever you are if you were to speak to all of us
You&#039;d say to see what is important and and that we&#039;ve lost our way
We&#039;ve lost our way</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am reminded of a song I wrote recently&#8230;</p>
<p>I just think that whoever you are if you were to show yourself to us,<br />
you would do it in a way that would bring us closer together<br />
I just feel in my heart that whoever you are, you are full of love<br />
And if we truly found you, we would truly love one another</p>
<p>Some call me crazy,<br />
maybe they&#8217;re right, but all I know is I&#8217;m tired of the fighting<br />
So many differences that we could be enjoying,<br />
but instead we want to prove who is better</p>
<p>I just think that whoever you are if you were to show us how to live,<br />
You&#8217;d make sure we understood how to really care for each other<br />
I just feel in my heart that whoever you are you want peace for us<br />
and to watch us embrace all the differences that you have given us</p>
<p>Some call me crazy,<br />
maybe they&#8217;re right, but all I know is I&#8217;m tired of the ignorance<br />
You gotta have the right skin, the right faith, the right orientation<br />
to fit in</p>
<p>I just think that whoever you are if you were to build a church for us<br />
we&#8217;d never find it in a building where only certain kinds of people go<br />
I just feel in my heart that whoever you are you&#8217;re in each of us<br />
It&#8217;s in our hearts that we will find you,<br />
not in some religion</p>
<p>Some call me crazy<br />
Maybe they&#8217;re right, but all I know is I&#8217;m tired of tradition<br />
People passing judgment when it is none of their business<br />
and so rarely taking time to look within</p>
<p>I just think that whoever you are if you were to speak to all of us<br />
You&#8217;d say to see what is important and and that we&#8217;ve lost our way<br />
We&#8217;ve lost our way</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Sarber</title>
		<link>http://jeremysarber.com/2008/08/26/pastor-renee-dubose-believes-gay-is-a-mark-of-gods-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-6510</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Sarber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremysarber.com/?p=1656#comment-6510</guid>
		<description>I might add that I agree whole-heartedly with Aunt Shirley.  I despise the sin of homosexuality but consider those guilty of it no better than myself or anyone else.  Whether it be murder or a little white lie, evil is evil.  I don&#039;t believe God grades on a curve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I might add that I agree whole-heartedly with Aunt Shirley.  I despise the sin of homosexuality but consider those guilty of it no better than myself or anyone else.  Whether it be murder or a little white lie, evil is evil.  I don&#8217;t believe God grades on a curve.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeremy Sarber</title>
		<link>http://jeremysarber.com/2008/08/26/pastor-renee-dubose-believes-gay-is-a-mark-of-gods-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-6508</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeremy Sarber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 15:55:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jeremysarber.com/?p=1656#comment-6508</guid>
		<description>I thought I explained that but maybe not well enough.  I did rush through this one last as I was growing very tired.

I will stand against the &quot;gay agenda&quot; because I believe it&#039;s wrong and it hurts the country to embrace this kind of immorality. My reason is that simple.  That&#039;s also why debates like these will never get anywhere.  We&#039;re all approaching the issue from different starting points. I have biblical and spiritual reason while others do not.  

Before anyone else responds with arguments, I welcome all of your comments, but keep in mind that you will not likely change &lt;em&gt;my&lt;/em&gt; opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought I explained that but maybe not well enough.  I did rush through this one last as I was growing very tired.</p>
<p>I will stand against the &#8220;gay agenda&#8221; because I believe it&#8217;s wrong and it hurts the country to embrace this kind of immorality. My reason is that simple.  That&#8217;s also why debates like these will never get anywhere.  We&#8217;re all approaching the issue from different starting points. I have biblical and spiritual reason while others do not.  </p>
<p>Before anyone else responds with arguments, I welcome all of your comments, but keep in mind that you will not likely change <em>my</em> opinion.</p>
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